archive snowblossom slack dev
prev 2018-12-03 next
2018-12-03 20:55:34
Fireduck
I have a problem with how everyone seems to HD wallets. It seems to be skipping the huge value of having hierarchical deterministic keys.
2018-12-03 20:56:34
Fireduck
So what everyone does is has some path for their coin with some public and some private derivations and then from that point they generate receive addresses and change addresses
2018-12-03 20:57:01
Fireduck
this is all well and good if you have one pool of funds, but what if you want separate pools but don't want a proliferation of seeds?
2018-12-03 20:57:39
Fireduck
I'd like to see clients able to create sub groups of wallets that could be imported into clients on their own or used from the master key and seen as a tree
2018-12-03 20:58:12
Fireduck
so for example, I could have a master fireduck seed and then under that a wallet for mining proceeds, a wallet for transaction escrows, etc
2018-12-03 20:58:56
Fireduck
if I wanted to take one of those sub wallets and install that on a machine, I should be able to do that without exposing the master keys
2018-12-03 20:59:10
Fireduck
This is of course all doable already with BIP39 HD, but no one seems to do it
2018-12-03 20:59:48
Fireduck
There are some tricky bits, like for that sub wallet derivation, you probably want it to be a private derivation
2018-12-03 20:59:59
Fireduck
which is fine, but it means the user needs to store or remember the key names somewhere
2018-12-03 21:00:36
Fireduck
Since we are in the business of making the snowblossom protocol, we can help there.
2018-12-03 21:01:17
Fireduck
lets suppose we have a standard where whatever level you are, there is private derivation that can be used to generate a key pair for a "recovery hint"
2018-12-03 21:01:52
Fireduck
you send a snowblossom transaction to that address with an extra encrypted payload (encrypted to the key pair) that lists the private key labels for the sub keys
2018-12-03 21:02:15
Fireduck
If you want to update it, then spend that transaction to a new output to that hint address with the new list
2018-12-03 21:02:37
Fireduck
that way, you can always do a quick getunspent for the hint address to get the recovery hint from the network
2018-12-03 21:10:52
Rotonen
wiki that if ever in need of fanning hype flames
2018-12-03 21:11:17
Fireduck
ha
2018-12-03 21:12:00
Rotonen
no, really, that’s the main appeal here - going off the beaten path with well executed simple good ideas
2018-12-03 21:12:23
Fireduck
right. I've wanted to do this with a bitcoin client forever
2018-12-03 21:12:39
Fireduck
Other than the recovery hint storage, there is no reason it can't be done with any EC key based crypto
2018-12-03 21:26:58
Clueless
@Fireduck `I'd like to see clients able to create sub groups of wallets that could be imported into clients on their own or used from the master key and seen as a tree` I thought they had this by producing sub public keys with recursive key functions `This is of course all doable already with BIP39 HD, but no one seems to do it` yeah that, seriously, no one does? wtf `that way, you can always do a quick getunspent for the hint address to get the recovery hint from the network` using the blockchain to store your sub derivation paths? neat thoughts.
2018-12-03 21:28:01
Fireduck
yeah, for low volume storage a blockchain is pretty neat
2018-12-03 21:39:09
Clueless
@Fireduck I thought electrum was doing something like that.
2018-12-03 21:39:27
Clueless
looks like they're probably doing similar with bip44, which I imagine you could mix with bip39 if you're clever.
2018-12-03 21:39:48
Clueless
`m / purpose' / coin_type' / account' / change / address_index`
2018-12-03 21:40:46
Fireduck
ah, right. Now that you mention it, i think trezor is doing that
2018-12-03 21:40:53
Fireduck
I retract my claim that no one was
2018-12-03 22:12:43
Clueless
@Fireduck tumblr is banning porn on the 17th. More mass migration primed and ready.
2018-12-03 22:15:42
Rotonen
where will alt porn communities go then, back to usenet?
2018-12-03 22:16:05
Rotonen
also channels ~ nntp on blockchain
2018-12-03 22:16:18
Clueless
I'm telling you man, people all over the internet are *begging* for alternatives to facebook, youtube, reddit, and tumblr and such.
2018-12-03 22:16:40
Fireduck
I should quit my job and just knock it out
2018-12-03 22:17:26
Rotonen
but you are aware you’re effectively trying to resurrect usenet? :P
2018-12-03 22:18:11
Fireduck
and everyone loved usenet
2018-12-03 22:18:33
Rotonen
yep, the main issue are the archival gaps
2018-12-03 22:18:50
Fireduck
there are a few differences, mainly that anyone can create a channel
2018-12-03 22:18:55
Fireduck
without anyone's permission
2018-12-03 22:19:02
Rotonen
also my university still had a campus nntp, good fun
2018-12-03 22:19:08
Fireduck
and distribution of the channel will be proportional to interest in it
2018-12-03 22:19:28
Rotonen
as in how non-usenet nntp servers worked
2018-12-03 22:19:43
Fireduck
Didn't know there were non-usenet nntp servers
2018-12-03 22:19:50
Rotonen
even my hometown isp ran a local one
2018-12-03 22:19:54
Fireduck
but I could see that making sense
2018-12-03 22:20:03
Rotonen
and had a bbs interface to it too
2018-12-03 22:20:31
Rotonen
yep, no need to confuse the americans with non-english non-ascii
2018-12-03 22:22:03
Fireduck
in̯̼͉̲͉͉ͅd͔̬̬̫̖e̶ę͚̙͉̣̰̗d̵̤
2018-12-03 22:22:43
Clueless
just tried to rub his screen off
2018-12-03 22:25:52
Clueless
Be careful, your text might all get stuck that way.
2018-12-03 22:26:49
Fireduck
speaking of which, how hard would it be to add text snippets and images to your slack archive
2018-12-03 22:26:50
Fireduck
?
2018-12-03 22:27:06
Clueless
shouldn't be too hard
2018-12-03 22:29:01
Fireduck
ideally, we would mirror the images rather than pointing to them on slack servers
2018-12-03 22:30:28
Rotonen
a shame slack itself already has decent decompression bomb filtering
2018-12-03 22:33:04
Fireduck
lol
2018-12-03 22:39:30
Rotonen
but ’usenet on blockchain’ is the kinda tagline a lot of people seem to seek
2018-12-03 22:39:32
Clueless
@Fireduck need to see if they store things privately depending on access to a slack channel
2018-12-03 22:39:47
Rotonen
also hilariously in line with the web site
2018-12-03 22:40:55
Fireduck
@Clueless do you want to work on a startup?
2018-12-03 22:41:06
Fireduck
Downsides, no pay (probably) and will likely be a failure
2018-12-03 22:41:17
Fireduck
upside, you get to be CTO and make all technical decisions
2018-12-03 22:41:39
Clueless
@Fireduck depends on the startup, possibly
2018-12-03 22:41:51
Clueless
probably yes, depending.
2018-12-03 22:42:05
Rotonen
also legally liable for said decisions, which is not a problem so long as you yourself are a majority owner
2018-12-03 22:42:38
Fireduck
you can get away with quite a lot as agent of the corporation here
2018-12-03 22:43:07
Rotonen
get an investor and you’ll waive a lot of that
2018-12-03 22:43:24
Rotonen
they want things they can nail you to the wall with
2018-12-03 22:43:33
Fireduck
why would there need to be an investor when you have a CTO?
2018-12-03 22:43:50
Fireduck
that link does work, but I'd rather not depend on it
2018-12-03 22:44:31
Rotonen
investors usually take advisory roles and actually help with the business side of the business
2018-12-03 22:44:54
Clueless
@Fireduck OH, I misread
2018-12-03 22:44:58
Clueless
`ideally, we would mirror the images rather than pointing to them on slack servers`
2018-12-03 22:45:06
Clueless
I read that as "we would not mirror them`
2018-12-03 22:45:07
Rotonen
path to revenue, pivot identification, focus vs. diversification
2018-12-03 22:45:15
Clueless
yeah, plan is to download it ourselves
2018-12-03 22:45:19
Fireduck
cool
2018-12-03 22:46:08
Clueless
I should learn proper object loading / factory stuff.
2018-12-03 22:46:35
Fireduck
bah
2018-12-03 22:47:37
Rotonen
you python, so just use the zope factory type mechanisms
2018-12-03 22:50:43
Clueless
this bullshit that I made up on the spot? ``` def message_factory(data): if "user" in data: return Message(data) elif "bot_id" in data: return BotMessage(data) elif "subtype" in data: if "file_comment" in data["subtype"]: return FileMessage(data) ```
2018-12-03 22:53:15
Fireduck
if that sort of thing fits on a screen you are good
2018-12-03 22:53:43
Fireduck
especially if you are using other code to actually do the reading once you figure out the type, which you are presumably doing in this constructors
2018-12-03 22:53:49
Fireduck
that is pretty clean in my opinion
2018-12-03 22:54:21
Fireduck
only thing I'd add, is map<string,int> unhandled_types
2018-12-03 22:54:45
Fireduck
else unhandled_types("data")++
2018-12-03 22:54:52
Fireduck
or whatever the syntax would be
2018-12-03 22:55:02
Fireduck
to track a count of messages you couldn't process in some way
2018-12-03 22:56:12
Clueless
``` else: unhandled += 1 ```
2018-12-03 22:56:43
Fireduck
sure, if you don't want to know what types of the unhandled messages are
2018-12-03 22:57:07
Fireduck
but I guess you might not have a type, since it is in random fields
2018-12-03 22:57:12
Fireduck
if I am reading this right
2018-12-03 22:57:15
Clueless
I didn't bother with catching because that appears to be the only three types of messages that actually exist, but I think that's a good suggestion.
2018-12-03 22:57:36
Fireduck
yeah, if it isn't relevant to the problem feel free to ignore me of course
2018-12-03 23:03:05
Clueless
@Fireduck what's the terminology around this? @Rotonen said zope factories which looks sorta like it. Other terms seem like `interfaces` `adapters`
2018-12-03 23:03:42
Fireduck
I don't have a term for it
2018-12-03 23:04:19
Fireduck
I'd call it a parser, but I use that for any process that involves hey, here is some lump of something, figure out what it is to decode into that thing
2018-12-03 23:04:43
Clueless
I feel like this should be a standard library thing
2018-12-03 23:05:25
Clueless
where you pass in a list of classes to a parser, pass it data, passes out appropriate objects.
2018-12-03 23:07:29
Fireduck
yeah, but your typing isn't clean
2018-12-03 23:07:36
Fireduck
some are identified by the presence of some field
2018-12-03 23:07:44
Fireduck
and then further subtyped by other fields
2018-12-03 23:07:56
Fireduck
what you have now is cleaner than anything you are going to find a library for
2018-12-03 23:07:58
Fireduck
and readable
2018-12-03 23:08:00
Fireduck
and maintainable
2018-12-03 23:08:21
Fireduck
you add a new type, or fine some message needs some special handling in some way, easy to add to your if blocks
2018-12-03 23:10:23
Fireduck
a library is like a closed machine, if it works for you, great but if it doesn't have the right ins and outs and levers, it might be more limiting than helpful